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坐月子
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muyongshi -
Quote:
I think she still needed to 坐月子, i.e. she still needed to get enough rest and enough
nutrition to recover, though she didn’t need to take care of her
baby.啊，不过她没了孩子啊，她的丈夫和家人是不是还愿意对她这么好啊，��
�就难说了。
Thanks for the clarification, I thought it would be that way...
It being a world war II era show with her being in the army I think made certain restrictions
easier (bathing specifically ) but other things would be hard.
I'm currently gathering more information from a health care provider in the states about some of
these practices.... (just chatting with a friend who is in the industry and thought I would
mention it to them)
All I have right now is that the big thing is for a month of recuperation and bonding with the
baby but nothing more specific than that (this is apparently the standard recommended practice in
the states)...
Side note: apparently it takes about a month for breastfeeding to become easy
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shanghaikai -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lu
I don't think all fruits were forbidden, only the 'cold' ones, 'cold' not in the sense of just out
of the fridge, but in the TCM sense. Which would leave plenty of 'warm' fruit that the new mother
can eat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by studentyoung
Indeed. Some fruit and food can help body improve blood circulation and stimulate principle
metabolism, which is called as “warm” or even “hot”, such as hot chilly, ginger, date,
etc. Some fruit and food can slow down blood circulation, hold down digestive enzymes
(抑制消化酶) or some other enzymes and hormones, such as pear, banana, watermelon etc.
In TCM, it believes that a woman just after having a baby must have lost a lot of energy, so she
is weak and tired. The enzymes and hormones in her body mustn’t be in the same level as usual.
At this time, we can offer some food, fruit or even health care product, which can improve blood
circulation, work up an appetite, and add more nutrition to help her recover.
Lu, as you can see, it isn't about the actual temperature of the fruit, according to studentyoung.
In any case, the maxim was no "fruit or cold foods" and not necessarily "cold fruit and cold
foods." Still a bit amorphous and categorical to me, it seems.
Lu -
Quote:
Lu, as you can see, it isn't about the actual temperature of the fruit, according to studentyoung.
That's exactly what I said in the post you quote of me.
I'm getting the distinct impression that we are talking completely past each other... That might
also explain the ongoing discussion we're having elsewhere about cheating/beating men. I suspect
that perhaps we don't disagree as much as we think we do.
gato -
Quote:
I suspect that perhaps we don't disagree as much as we think we do.
Just kiss and make up already.
shanghaikai -
Lu, I was trying to make a point about studentyoung's position, not about what you said. So no
disagreement there. ;)
fireball9261 -
I just want to add some information here regarding 坐月子, and I cannot guarantee they are
scientific, but I will try.
In TCM, 坐月子is not merely to prevent illness. It is supposed to be able to fortify the
women’s constitution, and I have no idea why. I think other TCM experts could provide better
answers.
Also, from what I heard from TCM doctors and old midwives over the years, it is not that western
women do not need坐月子. They also need it. However, there was no tradition of 坐月子, so
they don’t do it. According to my TCM doctors and older women, the effect of not 坐月子 will
eventually catch up with you. The problems might be weaker immune system, less energy, pains in
the womb area, back pains, sore legs, and possibly arthritis. It may be placebo effect like some
of you said, but a lot of modern day Chinese women would not risk it.
Regarding Chinese women’s constitution vs. the constitution of women of other race, I believe
the Chinese women would probably have similar constitution as the westerners if she ate western
style of diet, take western style of nutrition supplements, and did as much sports as the
westerners. It would be even better if her parents and grandparents (for a few generations) also
did the same. I believe there were scientific studies about how diet, nutrition supplements (I
heard some of them are being disproved), and parents’ health effect the health (constitution) of
a person.
The following statements are not scientific, and they are just my observations: I have seen a lot
ABCs (American Born Chinese) had the same constitution and energy as other westerners. However, I
have also seen many Chinese women in my generation (40’s) and younger who have less energy and
less strength than the usual westerners of the same generation. Many of these Chinese women (not
the ABCs) are also very afraid of cold, and this symptom is considered a sign of weaker
constitution in TCM. Contrarily, many ABCs I know do not seem to be as afraid of cold in the same
temperature. I can only assume diet, nutrition, and sports had a lot of impact on these
differences.
I will also provide some of my understandings of the customs of坐月子as followings:
- No cutting of nails, &
- No pulling of eyebrows (I am not sure why just eyebrows either)
I think the original ideas are based on the ideas that nails and hairs of a person is linked to
the person’s energy and blood 精血 (not necessarily the actual blood). Therefore, cutting them
may damage/reduce the person’s energy and blood 精血and, thus, lower the strength of the
person’s immune system.
This belief may also link to the old Confucius saying of “Body, skin, and hairs are all born of
the parents. You should not damage them.” In this case, it’s just a tradition.
However, I believe there are modern studies that linked a person’s health to his/her hairs and
nails. For example, a person who is sick may have more hair loss or brittle nails. Although I
don’t know there is scientific proof that the act of cutting nails or pulling eyebrows may cause
major health problems for women right after birth, I don’t think there is scientific disproof
either.
Btw, I do have swollen eyes for at least 2 days after I pulled my eyebrows.
- No use of cold water to wash &
- No bathing
I believe these rules are to prevent chill and infections. People can still use hot clothes to
wipe themselves off. Also, not washing with cold water is supposed to prevent back pains, sore
legs, pains in the womb area, as well as arthritis in the future. The second part may be placebo
effect, but I did have many women who told me that they started to have back pains because they
don’t follow this rule when 坐月子.
- No use of bath lotions &
- No use of toothpaste
Personally, I think there are too many unknown chemical ingredients in them that they might hurt
the baby through the mother’s milk. Besides, this rule was added in the modern days. Who have
heard of bath lotions and toothpaste in the old days?
- No eating of fruits or cold food
I think this particular rule was explained to death in previous postings. I just want to add that
Chinese do not eat cold or raw food (excluding fruits) in general traditionally because of the
problems of infection. Someone mentioned 涼菜 cold dishes before. Actually, most of the times,
they are boiled or drenched in boiling water first and then disinfected by vinegar and/or garlic.
There are some regional dishes that are eaten raw, such as, the drunken shrimp. They are either
soaked in alcohol first or not eaten by most Chinese any way.
There are also the belief among Chinese that cold food, especially the ice cold food, will cause
belly ache and diarrhea. Since I have the irritable bowl syndrome, they do affect me that way
somewhat. I guess this belief might come from the combination of people getting belly aches and
diarrhea from food poisoning, infectious disease as well as the irritable bowl syndrome by eating
cold food. Thus, the rule about not eating cold-temperature or raw food during坐月子 came into
being.
Of course, there is also the need not to eat food with cold properties in TCM as explained by
others.
- No watching of TV &
- No use of computers
These two rules have also been discussed to death. However, I do want to add one reason I heard
about the rules that has nothing to do with the radiation. It has something to do with the
mother’s posture. To stay in the same posture in front of TV or computer is not good for
anyone’s back especially someone who just gave birth and had extreme trauma to her back and
lower body. Besides, these two rules were also created after TV and computers were invented and
not an ancient tradition. The ancient tradition was not to wash clothing. In the ancient time, the
way for a woman to wash clothing would require her to assume a position similar to sitting in
front of a computer and worse (she needed to bend her top torso also). She also needed to be in
that position for a long time – thus, no washing clothing.
- Eating only of freshly cooked food
I believe it’s just want to make sure the new mother will eat well and not eat the spoiled food.
In the old time, the daughters-in-law generally eat the left over food or food that is no longer
fresh (meaning the food is half spoiled but the family don’t want to waste it.)
- No combing or washing of hair
No washing of hair is to prevent the young mother to take a chill because there were no hair blow
dryers and no good insulation and heater for the house in the past. It is very easy to take a
chill for bathing and washing hair. In the past, Chinese women generally did not wash their hairs
very often for this reason. They clean their hair with a special kind of hair brush called bi ji
(I don’t have the Chinese characters for them).
The rule for not combing the hair is connected to this bi ji. The teeth of this special brush (or
actually comb) are very tight, so it could squeeze out the dirt and oil from the hair. Its teeth
are also very sharp so that they could scratch the skins on the head and remove dirt and dandruff.
I believe this rule is to prevent the new mother accidentally scratches her head with the sharp
teeth of the special comb and causes infection. I knew people still used this kind of comb around
1960’s, but I don’t know whether the combs are still in use in today’s China. I would say
that the new mothers should not use sharp combs or brushes to brush their hair, but I wouldn’t
say that they couldn’t brush their hair at all.
shanghaikai -
I think I've learned more than I wanted to know about you (fireball)...but thanks for your
insights; I found them to be very contextually informative.
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